- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Who would’ve thought? This isn’t going to fly with the EU.
Article 5.3 of the Digital Markets Act (DMA): “The gatekeeper shall not prevent business users from offering the same products or services to end users through third-party online intermediation services or through their own direct online sales channel at prices or conditions that are different from those offered through the online intermediation services of the gatekeeper.”
Friendly reminder that you can sideload apps without jailbreaking or paying for a dev account using TrollStore, which utilises core trust bugs to bypass/spoof some app validation keys, on a iPhone XR or newer on iOS 14.0 up to 16.6.1. (ANY version for iPhone X and older)
Install guide: Trollstore
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I refuse to ever use a single Apple product.
Top comment by Chris (@[email protected]) Liked by 7 people
I think all these changes that the EU is doing really only benefit large development firms like Spotify and Epic at the expense of the smaller developers. EU is adding additional regulations and requirements from Apple which smaller developers and indie developers will now have to comply with which will act as barriers to entry for some. That’s bad for competition…which I think was ultimately the goal for Epic and Spotify.
I love this braindead take regurgitated again and again and again. The DMA specifically does not apply to anyone smaller than a big monopolistic company. Apple barely made the cut themselves. The whole regulation is about forcing six companies - the Act only applies to them at all - to open up their walled gardens because they are strangling their respective markets and killing innovation, consumer choice and competition.
That is hilarious that they expect iOS users to pay a fee to sideload apps. Like comically evil.
I don’t pay anything to side load apps on my phone.
Probably bc I switched to Android.:-)
And I am never ever going back!
You sound like one of those people who said they’d move to Canada when Trump got elected the first time, and didn’t.
… more like someone who already moved away from the US after prior episodes of shitty politics, and was vindicated when Trump was elected
Lolz!:-)
There are several women who would be alive today if they had done so…
Stubbornness can be a positively adaptive trait, but obstinacy in the face of facts not so much, and the same with squeezing your eyes shut REALLY tight to avoid knowing what is going on right in front of you.
It’s not the users they’re charging, it’s the developers. Instead of having to pay 30%, they’re asking for 27% if they’re selling their app side loaded.
Defeating the whole purpose.
Those numbers are from using outside payment methods and not side loading.
And developers move the cost to users by increasing price on ios
This was how it worked for years for developers. First step of testing your app on an iOS device you have is to pay Apple a developer fee. This has been a thing even back in iOS 3 times.
Is it just a one time fee? And what were you paying for, testing to see if it qualified for the app store?
Seems like sideloading would be a different path and goal unless Apple is trying to retain control of that too. To me a lot of the point of users sideloading is to load whatever they want, not what the corporation that made the OS will allow.
Its $100/year for sideloading an infinite amount of alls that don’t disappear. If you don’t pay, you can only sideload up to 3 at a time and they will disappear after a week
I don’t think that’s true at present. You can do it with the free account to sign builds for your own devices. If you need to run a build on a device that isn’t your own, you’ll need a developer account to get a certificate to sign your builds. It’s not great but you don’t have to pay to test your own app out on your own devices.
You can only test 3 apps at a time and they disappear after a week. It doesn’t matter if the device is yours or not.
To be exact, DMA applies to platforms with >45M users in EU
Not even just that, you have to have at least 7.5B EUR turnover or 75B EUR market cap, AND 45M end users AND 10k business users AND keep this up for 3 years.
And even then it’s not automatic, you get nominated and get arguments, and only then you have to follow it.
I mentioned the six companies because they are the only ones that this currently applies to, and that will be the case for the foreseeable future as well. And even from them, it’s specific products. MacOS is not in scope for example, despite iOS being scoped in.
MacOS is not in scope for example, despite iOS being scoped in.
But is MacOS as much of a walled garden than iOS? Not in the slightest, right? I’m fairly certain you can install random software on MacOS can’t you?
It doesn’t matter if it’s a walled garden with the DMA. Yes, MacOS is not in scope, because it doesn’t have enough users, but Android and Windows totally are.
Least neoliberal new urbanist
It’s brain dead because it’s a kneejerk response without anything backing it up.
EU regulations have a massive positive day-to-day effect on my life. It’s not like they get everything right, but on the grand scale, it’s working better than any other regulatory system I know.
@maynarkh You think app store policies and eu legislation only impacts you. 🤣
Large companies sponsor regulations all the time in an effort to make it harder for the smaller players or just plain greed.
Apple alluded to this in court that implementation of the and that the end result would absolutely be worse for smaller players than what was there before. Welp! 🤷🏾♂️ Smaller player gets screwed.
https://x.com/nikitabier/status/1750592825060921353?s=46&t=kj2zDgWA66Lbbc0rNac6uw
Apple didn’t sponsor the DMA, it was fighting tooth and nail against it. In general, EU politicians are harder to buy because they are more fragmented, and bribery is still illegal BTW.
That said, on the one hand, this fee structure is actually illegal under the DMA, the “core platform fee” nonsense is specifically illegal, and the EU is already on their ass about it.
On the other hand, this is just as if MSFT made Internet Explorer super expensive to license after they got hit by the same kind of regulation way back when. This just means that if you are an iOS app dev, you might want to release on something other than the App Store. I expect Google Play being available on iPhones pretty fast for example, or the Windows Store, or a bunch of other third party stores, and Apple can’t even preinstall or prefer the App Store on iOS over them. All the App Store being more expensive will do is make App Store fade to irrelevancy in the long run.
Yeah, I mean or you could just stop buying Apple products.
My rationale is this: apple users love spending money, so they can go ahead and spend it.
Fuck’em.
I’m an Apple laptop user with a Linux server. I love Linux and have thought about switching many times, but I don’t for the following reasons:
My Apple computers have lasted me twice as long as any other brand I’ve owned, and they don’t really die—they just get so old that I want a new one.
I never have to worry about incompatible hardware at any time, nor do I have to check for compatibility before upgrading my OS.
They never charge for a new OS, all of their basic software is free, and in some cases better than Microsoft Office.
Whatever product I use from them, it is definitely going to feel high quality.
The screens are always really nice, and everything is guaranteed to look crisp and clear.
They cost more money, but it isn’t like they give you nothing for it. If Linux isn’t a great option for some reason, an Apple device is going to be much less exploitative with advertising and spyware than Windows is.
I understand where the hate comes from, but I wish some Apple haters would back up for a minute and realize that there are power users who have perfectly good reasons to like that hardware.
Apple MacBooks and iMacs don’t have this side-loading issue like their mobile devices do. You can install anything you want to as long as it’s supported on a Mac, and from anywhere you want. So they are more or less a more premium Linux variant. I’m not sure why you came in here thinking this discussion applied to non mobile devices.
The base of this chain I’m replying to says “Apple products”. The comment that I am directly responding to is calling out all Apple users. More broadly the thread is about phones, but this particular side stream was about Apple in general, and I was providing my two cents.
People like being fucked
True that. If people actually cared we would see better things in the world for example - Firefox dominating the market. Now I don’t care if people use Brave/Samsung/Chrome/Vivaldi/Edge but the fact that they may all lead to Google dictating the Open Web sucks.
I love that you bring up web browsers as an example while saying that Apple users don’t care enough about the technological landscape. Safari is the leading competitor to chrome! Without those Apple users sticking to the browser they know on the system you ridicule, the problem you’ve identified would be worse.
As counter point, this law also prevents Google and Microsoft from going this route.
So as a non apple user, this helps us in the long run.
As someone who uses both Android and iOS, I appreciate my Pixel 8 Pro running GrapheneOS (a custom version of Android) more and more.
Do you face recognition or use a password? I can’t get passed pixel 3 for fingerprinting and even that cuz I can manually lock off the truely unstrustable method fingerprinting. That but not well enough. I honestly despise the gorramn pixel and can’t wait til my Librem gets useable.
I use the fingerprint sensor. Don’t get a Librem, it’s a scam and security on it is a disaster. Stick with GrapheneOS. Heck, stock is more secure than the Librem, believe it or not. I wouldn’t touch that thing with a 10ft pole.
I got it already and I have zero doubt in it. Your accusation will not cut me any doubt. I’ve heard that bit extensively and I have an entirely different awareness of it.
Also got Librem 13. Dunno what actually broke on it but I swapped the NVMe on it and sent back within the 3y warranty I bought on it and they sent me it again but it didn’t work and sent it back and they sent me a brand new one. That was after two years and the replacement lasted another two years. Dunno what’s really wrong with it and haven’t messed with trying to fix it myself out of the warranty now yet
I tried for the months to get GrapheneOS to work and made zero success with installing it. Tried CalyxOS after all that and got it done twice with success one one day on each two Pixel 3 and Pixel 4 (XL’s on both, total two days).
How do you get Pixel 8 work with the fingerprint? My 4 stuck me with the gorramn password. Which, in all fairness was the best thing ever because that is thus far the most secure device I’ve set up. Nothing but the password is truely to ONLY secure device arrangeable.
Having different functions available for different passwords at varying levels of accessfor shorter security is the best option that does NOT exist. Even the Librem doesn’t get that higher level of tiered access setup…*sigh…yet.
I won’t stop you from using the Librem but at the end of the day a false sense of security is more damaging than anything else. I can with 100% certainty assure you that even your average Samsung phone has better security than the Librem. A phone with absolute abbysmal and ancient hardware that Purism sells for 10-20 times the cost of an equivalently powerful Android phone from AliExpress. Heck, even the PinePhone (which also runs Linux) sells for like $200 and has better hardware. Purism is a scam company. I know you don’t want to hear this but it’s the truth.
You set up the fingerprint sensor on the Pixel 8 like any other Android phone. Either during first setup or by going into your security settings.
I know better than to ever give Samsung any money let alone any respect or delusion of security.
At the end of the day you are trusting someone you don’t know with all sense of identity, privacy, and knowledge of yourself: location, history, and money.
Fuck that. I’ll take FOSS.
As to fingerprint. How so? There’s no longer a fingerprint reader.
The fact is there’s no privacy without security and the Librem doesn’t have the latter.
The sensor is built into the display.
You trust Samsung. I’ll take you word with a grain of salt.
As to pixel. Ty. I’ll have to look into that.
This is a rather specific question, but can you cast audio from arbitrary apps to WiFi speakers from your Pixel? Similar to airplay on iOS (if that’s what it is called)?
Via Chromecast if the speaker supports it yeah
Exactly the same here P8P gOS and using an iPhone as a testing device (Jailbreaking etc)
I fucking hate Apple with a passion.
Edit: many people seem to be a bit confused. I don’t own any apple garbage, and never will. I’ve only had an iPhone back in 2016 for a little while then replaced that shit with a pixel 6p. I don’t buy shit that makes my life difficult.
Sent from an iPhone
Nope. I’m an android user.
it sounds like tying your shoes probably makes your life difficult
Why? Just get Android. Plenty of choices.
I’ve had one iPhone once and that was back in 2016.had if for a couple of months and it made me hate life and got rid of it and got me a pixel 6p. I’ve always been an android and Linux person. So, yeah, I hate apple with a passion
Why? What have they done to you? If you don’t like their products, simply don’t buy them.
Apple has made a lot of anti-consumer decisions. And since Apple is a big market force, other companies follow suite when they pull off shit like that. There is a legitimate reason to not like Apple.
It’s not that simple.
Blue chat boxes affect everyone. RCS is a stepping stone but my daughter wouldn’t be caught dead with a green chat box. Tell me how that isn’t Apple using their dominance to prevent other players?
FaceTime (which they PROMISED to open up but never did) affects everyone.
The FaceTime software, would have done plentiful towards the industry & others, if it became open sourced.
But nope, they decided to make it exclusive for only within the Apple product bubble. Now we are supporting with so many video apl software/ tools. It’s just fragmented. It’s okey with competition but this is far too much. Also the quality, safety have lessoned.
But nope, they decided to make it exclusive for only within the Apple product bubble
No, they didn’t decide to do that at all. Not opening up FaceTime is a direct result of a patent lawsuit by VirnetX
sounds like your daughter is a typical sheep - perhaps THAT’S the issue you ought to try having an issue with rather than a company doing normal business.
LOL. What a charmer you are.
Blue chat boxes affect everyone
How do they affect you if you don’t even have an iPhone? You’ll never see those blue bubbles.
Besides, the defacto standard for chat apps is WhatsApp, hardly anyone uses iMessage anyway.
FaceTime (which they PROMISED to open up but never did) affects everyone.
This was due to a patent lawsuit. Blame VirnetX, not Apple.
If you are in a peer group of teens where 70% have iPhones the lack of decent interoperability with Android affects the 30% that can’t be part of the conversations.
It is not true that WhatsApp is the defacto standard everywhere. Might be true for you but large pockets where that ain’t true.
I am blaming VirnetX but we both know it could be solved if Apple wanted to solve it.
What makes you think I buy their garbage? Literal garbage.
Then what are you bitching about?
Your mom
Show me on the doll where Apple touched you.
Does that doll have a wallet?
Who would’ve thought? This isn’t going to fly with the EU.
Article 5.3 of the Digital Markets Act (DMA): “The gatekeeper shall not prevent business users from offering the same products or services to end users through third-party online intermediation services or through their own direct online sales channel at prices or conditions that are different from those offered through the online intermediation services of the gatekeeper.”
Apple has an annual legal budget of approximately infinity dollars. I assure you they are aware of this and they believe they are in compliance, even if just barely.
If challenged, they will have no problem fighting it — they have nearly as much cash on hand as the entire EU budget.
I hope the EU challenges this, and I hope the EU wins, but Apple isn’t going to be surprised by whatever happens.
The fine would be approximately 10% of Apple’s total revenue and the fine increases by 10% every violoation so I doubt that Apple can not accept the regulations.
Unfortunately, Apple has the resources, both legal and financial, to tie that up in the EU courts for decades.
We’ll see what happens
You’re underestimating what EU can get gone when they’re motivated to get it done.
What if I told you one of those two can make new laws?
In one afternoon the Commission+Parliament can change the basis of whatever case Apple wants to fight. And they are up against Vestager - she makes multinational software companies bend the knee twice before lunch.
There’s the letter and there’s the spirit of the law. Even if Apple has found a brilliant loophole the courts can just say well it’s technically true but you’re still breaking the law nonetheless, lawyer budget be damned.
The EU court is a Roman court, not an Anglo Saxon court. The spirit of the law is what matters, not the technicalities.
Second, the EU can change the laws that create the outcome they don’t like. By the people, for the people. Apple will play within the EU’s rules or Apple won’t play in the EU.
Apple has also been known to ignore laws and pay fines for breaking them. The store is a major revenue stream so they might just do that.
They will get free publicity and show the users how they stand up to the overreaching government. Their users will eat it up.
IOS is the worst operating system i have ever used
Why do people buy it?
Because it’s a brand and people are morons who need external validation. Same reason for most brands - you pay a lot more for the same thing so you can seem cool or like you have money.
Have you actually sat down and used iOS as your full time phone OS for a week? If you’re used to android then yes there’s quirks you have to learn. But after being a diehard android user for years I could never go back. And that’s that I still use both every day since my work phone is Android and my person phone is an iPhone.
I just can’t not have a back button that’s always in the same place!
lol back button - how freaking 2000s. buddy we just move our finger left on the screen and we go back. like are you a caveman? this is Android fans these days, crowing about obsolete pieces of their technology like it was good. it wasn’t then it really isn’t now.
What button? Haven’t used a button on android for years now. Except power+volume ofc
One of the 3 virtual buttons that always display (4 for me since I have the accessibility button displayed also). (Background, homepage, and back- reverse order for standard android. I have Samsung)
Why not use the standard swiping gestures, it’s much more convenient and much faster.
I hate gesture controls. Even more fiddly and imprecise than fake buttons. Pinch zoom, scroll, and change page are more than enough.
How come it’s more fiddly? It works soooo smooth and reliable. And that coming from a dude who can’t type one error-free word on the phone.
lol the gesture controls on modern smartphones are overwhelmingly less fiddly (read: not at all) than your horrible excuses for defending an outdated piece of technology like ‘buttons’ when much better options exist.
Swiping from the left is almost universally a go back in ios.
With android’s gestures it simulates pressing the back button which is really awful. But iOS does swipes correctly.
Hahaha iOS swipe is awful.
If you 4 finger swipe now it goes back to previous app. Do it again now it goes to the app you just left. Wait a few seconds and it’s anybodies guess where it goes.
Even worse if you bring down the “notification” screen… Supposedly swiping up makes it go away, but it rarely works. Same with pulling up the app bar while in ful screen apps - that takes two swipes, and the second one has to be just so, not too fast, not too slow, and within some weird timing - try it too soon and it just doesn’t respond.
Apple’s swiping system is just a fucked up mess. (I use iOS all day long).
I use iOS every day.
It SUCKS.
If all you want to do are the things Apple decides you can do, and want to do things only Apple’s way, it’s great.
I choose Apple phones for my work phone, since it’s managed by the company anyway, so even an Android would be locked down. And it’s not like I would use a corp phone for the things I do with my personal phone - there’s too much risk in that.
Apple won’t even allow apps to sync photos automatically. I don’t want to use their cloud, at all. I just want photos I take synced between my devices using a single tool. No reason for those photos to go anywhere else.
Currently I sync files, automatically, between a dozen devices. All my photos from every laptop and Android phone go to the same folder on one machine. Anything I download with any device is available, almost immediately, for all other devices.
Except for my iOS devices. They can’t play in this game, even though the same apps are available on iOS.
Because it’s familiar, easy, pretty and does a lot of thinking for you.
Familiar only if you worked with it before.
Easy… fair enough.
Pretty… debatable.
Apple established itself as a luxury brand. So it gives customers this “prestige feeling”. That’s at least my take.
Yeah, I agree. I used it for 6 months for work and it’s not my thing, but plenty of people seem to love it. I guess the high price is actually a feature.
Think different, but stay the same, In Apple’s world, that’s the game. A touch of irony, don’t you think? In a sea of similar, we all sink.
I have both an iPhone and a Samsung. Both work well but I still prefer the iPhone though it’s a 6 years old one. I’m not an expert but I feel like every app use more familiar choices for design.
I wanted a fast laptop without a fan and with a big haptic feedback touchpad. Happy to hear about non-Apple options for this.
Think you might have confused iOS and MacOS
MacOS is even worse than iOS. Have to use it for work. And while the hardware is the best I’ve ever used, the software is complete garbage.
Desktop OSes today range from acceptable to abysmal.
- I put the user-focused Linux distributions at acceptable now that Flatpack is resolving a long-lasting issue with desktop Linux.
- The built in advertising and privacy invasion makes Windows 11 abysmal, though it seems they’ve finally found their rhythm on the UI language front
- macOS these days is firmly in mediocre territory. Window management hasn’t kept up with developments in other platforms and the OS feels dumb now. We had a very good OS in the Snow Leopard days, but that Apple doesn’t exist anymore.
Oh yeah, I completely concur. I don’t get the ux argument either, I always find it to be incredibly slow and frustrating to use whenever I have to
These are fascinating requirements. Mind explaining?
Fast, quiet, big touch pad. What’d fascinating or out of the world here? These are just kind of things most people want, not everyone wants to manually update their kernel or whatever.
I’ve got an Asus ZenBook (specifically this one that came out last year). It does have a fan, but it’s pretty quiet. I barely notice it most of the time. It’s pretty fast, too. Don’t know how large of a touchpad you want, though.
Doesn’t look bad, but I’m guessing it doesn’t have a haptic touchpad? (Clicking is equally easy anywhere on the touchpad, because there isn’t actually a click, the click is simulated by a vibrator.)
No, there’s no haptic touchpad. TBH, I didn’t even know that was a thing.
I think Apple trademarked having a big touchpad. And possibly also one that works.
lol this is such a weird blanket statement that means nothing. congratulations, you can baselessly slam something you don’t like. Why are you the way you are, is the better question. iOS has clear benefits and there are a plethora of reasons of why one would choose an iPhone over the other options.
but GO OFF, random internet pleb.
Privacy and security mostly I would imagine
Closed source software can’t be audited, so it can’t be secure. If software isn’t secure, the exploits rid it of any privacy.
See: The bimonthly remote takeover bugs that keep getting found. Like this one: https://citizenlab.ca/2023/09/blastpass-nso-group-iphone-zero-click-zero-day-exploit-captured-in-the-wild/
“Oh whoopsy doopsy, looks like your iPhone, camera, files, GPS and more were accessible to someone who sent you an iMessage… for the third time this year”
Closed source software can’t be audited, so it can’t be secure
That’s the biggest load of bullshit I’ve ever heard.
Closed source software is audited all the time.
Ok let me rephrase - nobody without a conflict of interest can audit a closed source application. If Microsoft paid for an audit of Windows, that doesn’t tell you anything about whether or not Windows is backdoored.
The audit is not for you. Closed source software is audited all the time, but the results of those audits are generally confidential. This is about finding security bugs, not deliberate backdoors.
The key with this is who do you trust. Sure, open source can be audited by everyone, but is it? You can’t audit all the code you use yourself, even if you have the skills, it’s simply too much. So you still need to trust another person or company, it really doesn’t change the equation that much.
In practice, most common open source software is used and contributed to by hundreds of people. So it naturally does get audited by that process. Closed source software can’t be confirmed to not be malicious, so it can’t be confirmed to be secure, so back to my original point, it can’t be private.
I didn’t go into that much detail in my original comment, but it was what I meant when I first wrote it. As far as “does everyone audit the software they use”, the answer is obviously no. But, the software I use is mostly FOSS and contributed to by dozens of users, sometimes including myself. So when alarms are rung over the smallest things, you have a better idea of the attack vectors and privacy implications.
In practice, most common open source software is used and contributed to by hundreds of people. So it naturally does get audited by that process.
Just working on software is not the same as actively looking for exploits. Software security auditing requires a specialised set of skills. Open source also makes it easier for black-hat hackers to find exploits.
Hundreds of people working on something is a double-edged sword. It also makes it easy for someone to sneak in an exploit. A single-character mistake in code could cause an exploitable bug, and if you are intent on deliberately introducing such an issue it can be very hard to spot and even if caught can be explained away as an honest to god mistake.
By contrast, lots of software companies screen their employees, especially if they are working on critical code.
Because it’s cool apparently.
It’s cool because it is expensive so it is a status symbol. Just like wearing expensive jewelry is cool.
I don’t need people to think I’m cook if that is their criteria.
Or get a fold phone if you want to burn money 💰
y’all people that keep saying ‘status symbol’ or ‘expensive’ really haven’t bought a phone in like a decade, right? because android phones are costing the same as apple flagships. how ignorant can you be?
Why do you think the prices rose? Maybe a little inflation but also because they wanted to be perceived as as good or better than the iPhone. So they had to match or exceed the price.
And this price match won’t change consumer perception overnight. Apple already had the “premium” perception and it will stick around for a long while.
Classic Apple.
Remember their slogan from back then? “does more, costs less!”
Classic.
Just like when google silently removed their slogan “don’t be evil”.
Just like when google silently removed their slogan “don’t be evil”.
They didn’t just remove it, they changed it to “do good”. I’m not sure what that means to Google but it sort of looks like “implement the neoliberal cyberpunk hellscape no one asked for”
Yes, well, the whole point is that them following the law means that their assistance warranting fees (like running a store) isn’t required. So I hope they get nailed.
It’s hard to imagine people who buy iPhones care about sideloading. Their priority is the convenience of iMessage and the Apple ecosystem.
I care about sideloading and imessage. If imessage was available on android, I would be using a pixel at the moment. It’s just that I am from the US but don’t live their. So imessage is the easiest way for me to be in touch with 99% of the people I know.
The convenience of… texting?
Lol. Sometimes I feel you ppl just regurgitate what you’ve seen before without realizing it.
The texting thing seems to be something real in the USA.
No fan of apple. Don’t own a single product.
But my guess they are planning to argue thay this part of the rule.
“at prices or conditions that are different from those offered through the online intermediation services of the gatekeeper.”
Mean they cannot allow free side loading when many apps on their store have to pay to be available. Also as they have rules limiting the apps allowed via their store front. Allowing free side loading without checking the activities of the app. Would also be allowing conditions different from their store.
My guess is they want to argue that the law is badly formed and cannot be followed while providing a safe enviroment within your own services.
I‘d be really surprised if Apple tried that.
They have to know that it violates the DMA. And the penalty for violating it can be up to 10% of their yearly worldwide revenue (not earnings!) for the first violation and up to 20% for repeated violations. I don‘t think they‘d risk that, especially as the EU really isn’t known for its leniency when someone intentionally breaks their rules.
On the positive side, those fines could fix the finances of a few smaller EU countries in a single sweep.
I’m not too sure that these actions violate the letter of the law here, even though I agree that they’re 100% in violation of the spirit of the law.
It’s been some years since I’ve put the mobile development world behind me, in no small part because of Apple’s shenanigans, but the way I understand how this might work - Apple may be required to allow “iOS software” to be installed from third party stores, but software that runs on iOS must either be signed using a certificate that only allows installation in a developer or enterprise context (which require explicit and obvious user consent to that specific use case, and come with other restrictions such as the installation only lasting for a limited period of time), or through an “appstore” certificate that allows installation on any device, but the actual application package will need to go through Apple’s pipeline (where I believe it gets re-signed before final distribution on the App Store). All certificates, not just the appstore ones, are centrally managed by Apple and they do have the power to revoke, or refuse to renew, any of those certificates at-will.
If my understanding is correct (I’d appreciate if any up-to-date iOS devs could fact-check me), then Apple could introduce or maintain any restrictions they please on handling this final signing step, even if at the end of the day the resulting software is being handed back to developers to self-distribute, they can just refuse to sign the package at all, preventing installation on most consumer iOS devices, and to refuse to re-issue certificates to specific Apple developer accounts they deem in violation of their expected behavior. I haven’t read the implementation of the DMA in detail, nor am I a lawyer, so I’m not sure if there are provisions in place that would block either of these actions from Apple, but I do expect that there will be a long game of cat and mouse here as Apple and the EU continue to try and one-up the other’s actions.
But the article of the DMA says that the gatekeeper shall not prevent the business user to serve their product using other conditions than those of the gatekeeper’s platform. I think that would include Apple’s publishing guidelines.
I think that’s the rub, in my theoretical scenario, Apple is not blocking the distribution or sale of iOS applications through third-party means, they’d enforce their existing restrictions on and power over building iOS applications in the first place. Developers would absolutely still be able to distribute unsigned applications - end user iOS devices would just be unable to install them.
It sounds ridiculous to me, and as I wrote earlier, it would be a clear violation of the spirit of the DMA, but I don’t see any reason why this scenario would not be technically possible for Apple to pull off.
Velociraptors testing the fence. It may be illegal but they may get away with it if they can argue "no actually’
I’m so glad I’m not using Apple, so I can avoid this mess. Not that Android is perfect, in fact Android is pretty shit as well. But at least it’s better than getting locked into Apples ecosystem
I will never switch to iOS until they allow both sideloading and other browser engines.
I hate that I buy my phone from a shitty advertising company like Google but atleast they don’t treat me like a child and let me use my universal turing machine universally.
Support small refurbishing shops online and buy your phone used from them, and put Linux or another Android fork such as Calyxos or Graphene on them. Works great for me.
Saw an article just today about Apple allowing other browser
renserinenfijeswtf autocorrect, I typed engines, but only in the EU.OK, so how do I make iOS think it’s in the EU then?
other browser renserinenfijes
what happened there lmao
No idea, must be the auto renserinenfijes.
Autoincorrect and I didn’t notice. Wtf? Hahaha
Or I was having a stroke
but atleast they don’t treat me like a child
They do. They don’t give you root access out of the box. And if you decide to root it, you’ll pop a physical fuse
i have unlocked bootloader of every single smartphone I’ve ever had, ranging from Xiaomi, Samsung, Motorola to Google.
pixels are the easiest to unlock. there are several mediocre things about pixels(battery life, refresh rate, etc.). but unlocking bootloader isn’t one of them.
i have unlocked bootloader of every single smartphone I’ve ever had, ranging from Xiaomi, Samsung, Motorola to Google.
I didn’t say it was hard, and I’ve done it myself, but try do that on your work phone
why the hell would you root a device supplied to you by your employer? It’s not yours.
why the hell would you root a device supplied to you by your employer? It’s not yours.
I don’t, and that’s my whole point. It’s way more locked down than a PC operating system. It’s also mine in the sense, that it is intended to be used for personal stuff, which I do use it for.
I steer clear of doing anything personal with work related devices. but even then, Android at least allows for two separate profiles.
I suppose they can charge to use their own side-loading software, or their alternative app store, but I’m not sure what happens if a third party offers a side-loading platform that doesn’t pay Apple.
I suppose they can just refuse to allow such platforms to exist, but the EU may not feels that satisfies their grievances. Eventually they’re going to have to require side-loading.
Did Tim Cook have a bad trip or something? Apple normally isn’t this blatantly shitty.
Apple normally isn’t this blatantly shitty.
(¬_¬ ) Dude, you been living under a rock?
No
Joke aside, Apple has always been anti-consumer and shitty. Unfortunately.
They’re always this shitty, the difference is that usually they can just throw enough money at politicians to get their way at the government level so their shit just stinks behind closed doors. But for one shining moment a government that matters actually told them “no” so they have no choice but to be shitty in public instead. Well, I mean they could choose to not be anti-consumer and forgo some of the obscene profits they extract from their users but then they wouldn’t be Apple.
