• @[email protected]
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    -219 minutes ago

    The hypocrisy of many calling Trump a Nazi is mind boggling.

    As far as I can tell Trump can only be deemed a Nazi by association - he’s not been going around spouting stuff about people’s races making them superior or inferior to others like an ethno-Fascist and instead he’s been mostly using traditional Fascist dog whistles (I.e. about the superiority of the Nation), but since he has indeed cultivated the support of neo-nazis and other ethno-Fascists in the US, he’s associating with Nazis.

    The hypocrisy comes because the most Nazi ideology around right now is Zionism - they’re ethno-Fascists, claiming to represent a race, going on and on about the superiority of their race (calling it “the chose people”) whilst being overtly racist about Arabs in general and even more so Palestinians who they call “human animals”, i.e. subhumans whis is literally untermenschen - and, even more extreme, they’re mass murdering them right now by the hundreds of thousands.

    Anybody who here and now calls Trump a Nazi due to his association with ethno-Fascists but has previously been defending Biden, Harris and most of the Democrat party as not being Nazis all the while they were actively supporting with weapons the present day Nazis who were actively engaged in a genocide along racial lines, is a hypocrite.

    Ditto anybody going around criticizing people who chose to neither vote Democrat nor Republican: it is absolutely understandable that when people only have the choice between two sets of Nazis, many chose “neither”. After all, if one is a Nazi by supporting Nazis, then the Republicans supporting of Nazis makes them Nazis and giving support to the Nazis-Republicans (for example by voting for them) makes one a Nazi and exactly in the same way the Democrats supporting the present day Nazis makes them Nazis, so supporting Nazi-Democrats makes one a Nazi - anybody who does indeed believe people can become “Nazi by association” land does not want to be a Nazi, would refuse to vote for either Nazi-by-association party.

    I truly respect those with the genuine principles and ideological consistency of calling both main American parties Nazis (as I said, if one thinks associated with Nazi = Nazi, then logically they are both Nazis) or at least Nazi-supporting, because they are.

    It’s only the political tribalists for whom one group of Nazi-supporters are Nazis but the other group of Nazi-supporters are not Nazis because the former is “them” and the other is “us” who are despicable hypocrites.

  • @[email protected]
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    195 hours ago

    As swiss person I have to meet and talk to this guy, he can not be that stupid!

    We definitely have something like the republicans party, it is called SVP (Schweizerische Volkspartei). SVP uses exactly the same tactics as republicans, like anti “woke”, anti regulation, anti common media, pro hate-speech(“anti censorship”), etc.

    We just not have a single party to counter it, like democrats, but like 10 parties with little nuances.

    We have some small parties besides SVP “on the republican site” but those tend to be irrelevant. Maybe, the anti corona party has a some relevance, still, but I guess their power is sinking.

    I personally support the pirate party, which mainly stands for privacy, no matter if left or right, but the party it self is leading to the left (democratic) side.

    At least, that is how I understand our situation here.

  • ddh
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    145 hours ago

    Andy out here shooting straight through his foot and putting holes in his boat’s hull.

  • @[email protected]
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    117 hours ago

    A wise man once told me, don’t mess with politics. The moment you show stance (which usually isn’t beneficial), you cut off options from yourself and endanger customer relationship.

    Proton should just do business as usual, without that single post things would probably be just fine.

    • @[email protected]
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      105 hours ago

      They showed political stances all the time when it comes to privacy and antitrust, just look at their blog. Why wouldn’t they? What they do is also political, as a company.

      • @[email protected]
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        74 hours ago

        I think that’s a different thing. That is a political stance but it’s not picking sides. People who want to organise Nazi rallys and people who need to communicate without getting attacked by Nazis both have reasons to use encrypted email. When you pick one over the other, you’ve cut the size of your userbase.

          • @[email protected]
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            03 hours ago

            That’s not the point. A neutral stance VPN has all the anti-Nazis as customers, and all the Nazis. I would prefer anti-Nazi as well but I get that that a neutral stance means they can have more customers, something they need for economy of scale.

            If they had stated their anti-trump stance then the freeze peach lemmy instances would probably have all their Nazis cancelling their proton subscriptions.

            Honestly I hope all the cancellations on our side aren’t balanced by a bunch of Nazis signing up after seeing the comments.

            • @[email protected]
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              45 minutes ago

              He’s trying to have it both ways though. He wants to support trump and then be like “nooooo! What are you talking about? We’re neutral!

              Yeah, with the same Swiss neutrality that doesn’t care whose teeth the gold came from.

              • @[email protected]
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                11 hour ago

                I don’t think I quite get what the benefit is to them of supporting Trump’s pick. What was it he was hoping to gain, not from the pick but from his comment?

                • @[email protected]
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                  21 hour ago

                  What benefit do all those who have kissed trump’s ring thus far get? All I know is that I’m not about to trust my privacy to someone with 88 in their username. I only signed up for proton last month because of trump. I’ll be leaving for another service for the same reason.

        • @[email protected]
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          24 hours ago

          I don’t think they picked in this case either. Like they didn’t when they cooperated with dem senators in the past. They are cooperating or praising whichever side advances policies that can ultimately help privacy.

          • @[email protected]
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            That was probably their thought too. However, they have misjudged the Lemmy (and I think reddit) population on this, and I would argue that worse than the initial comment is the absolute lack of recognition (in follow up comments) that what they said could be taken as an endorsement of a government that is trying to actively harm a significant portion of the US Proton users.

            • @[email protected]
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              -13 hours ago

              I think he actually acknowledged that fact in later comments. Anyway, this is a far smaller sin than all the stuff people are creatively accusing him of.

              Apparently now he is a Nazi, and I think this case was the last nail in the coffin for me to think that political discourse can exist.

              • @[email protected]
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                13 hours ago

                If it helps, most people don’t follow politics at all. And their votes are based on very little knowledge of what they are voting for.

                I’m still a believer that if you put people in a room together instead of online, you’d get both sides of the aisle agreeing on 95% of things, once each side had a chance to explain their viewpoint (and made sure google was available to settle most disputes).

  • @[email protected]
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    27 hours ago

    This needs to be pinned at the top: only a Nazi goes out of their way to put an 88 in their username. He thinks he’s clever by putting it in binary so people don’t immediately call him out. Nazis get off on that kind of “clever” dogwhistle.

    • @[email protected]
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      35 hours ago

      This is at the same time:

      • a novax level conspiracy
      • a completely idotic assumption that not only doesn’t stand Occam’s razor, but not even basic common sense.
      • racist and showing a colonial mindset, clearly prioritising what is relevant in YOUR culture (superior, more important), compared to what is relevant in that person’s culture.

      Please can someone tell me how this attitude is fundamentally different from people who are in other cults (maga, novax, etc.)?

    • @[email protected]
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      116 hours ago

      When was he born? Not everyone knows all the “secret” signs for stuff. How 18 is A.H or how 81 is H.A (Hells Angels) 1% biker clubs have surprisingly much of such codes. 8 is also the number of Khorne in the Warhammer fantasy/sci-fi setting. And before we start with that there are surprisingly few Nazis who play, but the few are very vocal.

      Years ago I saw a guy in a crocery store in Norway wearing a “Combat18 Böhmen” hoodie. Buying ingredients for tex-mex taco incidentally. And when I pointed him out to my wife, she said that you are probably the only one in here to know this, and spot him for what he is.

      So if Andy was born in 1988 I hope it’s why he has 88 in his username.

      • @[email protected]
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        76 hours ago

        He’s apparently said he was born in 1988. In another thread others mentioned that would make him 21 when he started his PhD, which checks out.

      • @[email protected]
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        -166 hours ago

        When was he born? Not everyone knows all the “secret” signs for stuff.

        I don’t care when he was born. Who puts their birth year in their username? “Here, internet. Here’s one less piece of information you need to steal my identity!”

        No. “ItS mY bIrF YeEr” is just what nazi shit says when they get called out on being nazi shit.

        • @[email protected]
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          Look, I can’t comment on the significance of binary 88 in this instance with any confidence, but a lot of people use their birth year in their username.

          Is it stupid? Absolutely, alongside demonstrating a total lack of any creativity whatsoever. But it’s 100% a thing.

          Edit: Lol, will also note the first ‘people also search’ suggestion coming up when Googling Andy Yen is “When was Andy Yen born”, and in the 5 seconds of drunken searching I still haven’t seen a birth date.

          • @[email protected]
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            -16 hours ago

            Look, I can’t comment on the significance of binary 88 in this instance with any confidence, but a lot of people use their birth year in their username.

            A lot of people who like trump were coincidentally totally born in 1988.

            • @[email protected]
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              To be clear, I’m not arguing that people don’t put 88 as a clear dog whistle to white supremacists/general Nazi bullshit. This is more to the comment “who puts their birth year in their username?” bit specifically. The answer is a lot of people.

              I also am not excusing Yen for his pro-Trump comments - that was fucking bullshit and I’m deeply disappointed - I’m just saying the YOB thing is a thing, but also coincidentally I also can’t seem to find a source to prove if he’s also doing the YOB thing or something else.

              Note to self: Limit Lemmy to 3 beers max, particularly where Trumpian bullshit is involved. And thank god for autocorrect. Apologies, I really should not be interneting right now.

              • @[email protected]
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                33 hours ago

                If I were born in 1988 I would not put an encoded “88” in my username. I wouldn’t want people to think I was dogwhistling.

              • @[email protected]
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                35 hours ago

                To be clear, I’m not arguing that people don’t put 88 as a clear dog whistle to white supremacists/general Nazi bullshit.

                To be clear, anyone who supports trump is already nazi-adjacent enough to get no benefit of the doubt, and I don’t buy the “It’s my birth year” shit from any of them. Even if they were born in 1988, that’s not the reason 88 is in their username.

                I also don’t believe that someone whose entire personality centers around cannabis has “420” in their username because they were born on April 20th. I don’t believe that some fratboy who is constantly making horny comments has “69” in his username because he was born on June 9th, either.

                • @[email protected]
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                  04 hours ago

                  88 is so much worse that I wouldn’t even compare then to the anodyne 420 & 69 examples.

        • @[email protected]
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          05 hours ago

          Yes, a public figure, whose data can be discovered in few minutes, considers his birth year a secret. Also nobody ever used the birth year in their username on the internet.

          Also ANDY = 1 + 14 + 4 + 25 = 44, which is half of 88 and contains 14, another nazy symbol. He is trying to pass it off as his name, but who uses their name on the internet? I will check the cabala now, because I am sure there is more.

          God, I hope Nick Fury is already grouping the avengers, because Hydra is really making a move here.

          • @[email protected]
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            04 hours ago

            If you don’t want people to think you’re a nazi, don’t say good things about trump with 88 sitting right there for everyone to see in your username.

            The account is 2 days old. He knew what he was doing.

            • @[email protected]
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              -13 hours ago

              If trump did a good thing in a very narrow context you can’t say it, otherwise you are a Nazi? OK, this is madness. Also, it’s not “sitting there for everyone to see” because it’s binary. You also realize that people have different cultural references right? Maybe it’s not your responsibility to compute the cabala horoscope for everything you do, and assume that people will be able to use at least the 2% of the brain and for example distinguish from a bold Nazi supporter with 88 tattooed and a guy born in 88 who appends 88 to his username (in a nerd way). But apparently not.

              He created an account to speak personally and not from the proton account he uses before. Anyway, “he knew what he was doing” is conspiracy theory again.

              • @[email protected]
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                03 hours ago

                Also, it’s not “sitting there for everyone to see” because it’s binary.

                Yes, obfuscating it makes it better!

                Maybe it’s not your responsibility to compute the cabala horoscope for everything you do, and assume that people will be able to use at least the 2% of the brain and for example distinguish from a bold Nazi supporter with 88 tattooed and a guy born in 88 who appends 88 to his username (in a nerd way). But apparently not.

                He supported trump with 88 in his username.

                He created an account to speak personally and not from the proton account he uses before.

                And he didn’t need to put 88 in there, or obfuscate it. And I’m increasingly certain that you’re freaking out and defending him for it because you’re happy that your political party is represented.

                • @[email protected]
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                  He supported Trump’s pick. I know reality makes little difference for you, but still. Also yes, he put 88 in his username, which is not a crime, especially for a Taiwanese guy born in 88 lmao.

                  The sole fact we are even discussing this is just absurd. Absurd. It’s 5g gives cancer absurd. It’s vaccine give autism absurd.

                  And I’m increasingly certain that you’re freaking out and defending him for it because you’re happy that your political party is represented.

                  Correct, because as non US citizen communist republicans are my party. In fact, anybody who disagrees with you is secretly a republican, and even more secret a Nazi, there is no other reason to disagree with you, absolutely. In fact, sudneo has “south” in it, and “o” at the end, what do you get it you put “o” south of “o”? 8, and that’s half of 88. Considering there is also “n” in it, and that’s 14, I think it’s quite clear that I am also a Nazi, trying to cover my Nazi colleague Andy. Heil Hydra.

                  You are just a maga with slightly different moral values. Still a cultist fanatic on a witch hunt that threw reason and reality out of the window.

  • @[email protected]
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    5914 hours ago

    I seem to remember that Switzerland has a history of profiting from their relationships with Nazi’s. Thus they might not be a good source of advice as to what to do about Nazi’s.

    • @[email protected]
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      -3510 hours ago

      It’s dumb to call Trump a nazi and the populist wing of the Republican party nazis.

      It’s not even clever at this point, maybe it was edgy and transgressive like 7 years ago.

      The reason it’s dumb is that you are wasting all of your powerful language and you will have no more if things get worse. Boy who cried wolf. Just like people did to racist which used to carry great power and now is basically meaningless as a powerful descriptor.

      • @[email protected]
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        21 hour ago

        I’m sorry but what? This is really weird logic as language and words aren’t required to follow some linear path of severity. People call the GOP, Trump and the like Nazis because… they fit the definition of Nazis, actual card carrying Nazis support them by a significant majority. (Yeah yeah I know there is the odd one here or there that doesn’t)

        If it walks like a Nazi, talks like a Nazi and engages in Nazi tactics, behaviors etc. Then it can be called a Nazi. You don’t reserve your language so that you have some end point to progress to.

        It’s also very weird to use the boy who cried wolf when the whole point of that story is that you don’t call something that which it isn’t for fear that when the real thing comes along no one will believe you as that would imply that they are in fact not Nazis. Which would only be true in the most technical of sense (As in they are not of the Nazi party of Germany) but by most dictionary definition the word fits.

        Lastly, what the hell are you even talking about “edgy”? Do you think people are calling them Nazis to be edgy? Because that’s ridiculous and quite frankly your entire comment screams of someone trying to defend them through deflection.

      • @[email protected]
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        106 hours ago

        Gee. Which side has all the people marching with nazi flags?

        Which side never kicks them out when they do?

      • @[email protected]
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        209 hours ago

        It’s not even clever at this point, maybe it was edgy and transgressive like 7 years ago.

        Are you really this childish that you genuinely think the only reason people might suggest Trump is a fascist is because it was “edgy and transgressive”? Not the fascist rhetoric, increasingly fascist policy and the various fascists he’s willing to work with and support?

        • @[email protected]
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          -109 hours ago

          Nazism is a very small subset of fascism, they are not equivalent. Nazi also carries VERY heavy baggage which is inapplicable to Trump. Use the right terms.

          • @[email protected]
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            86 hours ago

            Nazism is a very small subset of fascism, they are not equivalent. Nazi also carries VERY heavy baggage which is inapplicable to Trump. Use the right terms.

            Can’t tell if you’re defending trump or gatekeeping nazism.

          • @[email protected]
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            169 hours ago

            Hey guys, look at this dipshit, drawing irrelevant distinctions and pointlessly trying to police other peoples language because they think the only reason others would use those terms is because they’re “edgy and transgressive”.

            Tell me, where on the fascism to nazism meter is mass deportations, muslim bans, endorsing far right militias, supporting running over protestors, palling around with white supremacists, and seeking to eradicate trans people from public life? Are we at .49? or is it more like .76? My readings seems to be off. Just so I know I’m not using the incorrect terms so some moron from .world doesn’t get mad and try to incessantly police terms on the internet.

      • @[email protected]
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        129 hours ago

        Now now. Many MAGA are in fact documented nazis, and Trump’s record is bad but it quite as explicit as that. If you’re afraid of the term being bandied about, I recommend therapy.

  • @[email protected]
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    2213 hours ago

    Sounds like the CEO of proton doesnt understand the basic privacy concerns for the US VPN market. He should really look that up someday-- theres money to be made in the Us market if he cared enough.

    • humble peat digger
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      251 minutes ago

      Americans just now finding out what has always been in place.
      Vpn from Switzerland won’t save you - they will share our data if it comes to us needing access to it. And if proton refuses - it would have been shut down already like tiktok

  • @[email protected]
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    19019 hours ago

    I can’t be the only one who struggled to read that, and for general accessibility purposes since I’m already here:

    Image ID:

    andy1011000 Proton CEO posted:

    “People honestly seem to forget that I live in Switzerland, where Republican/Democrat doesn’t mean anything, and Trump isn’t even on our ballot to be voted for…”

    Onyx376. replied:

    “The point is that fighting for a more just and equal society is not just about fighting for the fundamental right to privacy but also for all other fundamental rights, including individual rights and life. When you, as the CEO of a company that starts from these principles, nod positively to whatever action a political figure like Trump, who is known for always flagrantly putting his private interests ahead of those of his own nation, makes speeches about eliminating minorities, hurting their rights as citizens and flirting with Nazi movements, it is understandable that members of the privacy community are disappointed as this reveals a little about who is being the face of a company that should follow contrary principles. But now we really know what “freedom” means to you.”

    • @[email protected]
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      6518 hours ago

      Doing the Lord’s work right here. I absolutely cannot stand screenshots of desktop apps.

      Mobile screenshots will be readable on both mobile and desktop.

      But desktop screenshots are only readable on desktop.

  • nb_mess[they/them]
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    712 hours ago

    Wait, the proton ceo is a trump supporter? What the fuck, he’s the last person I thought would do that

    • ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed
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      1810 hours ago

      No, I would not describe him as a trump supporter. I would say that he’s a right-wing “Libertarian” tech-bro that has no clue about American politics, just spewing his uneducated bs because he thinks he’s some genius. He might be a CERN scientist, but he’s a dumbass when it comes to American politics.

      (But it is concerning to have such an idiot on the board of the Proton Foundation)

      • @[email protected]
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        No he had plenty of time to educate himself but instead doubled and tripled down. Also his username ends in 88 which has been the most unsubtle Nazi dog whistle since the invention of usernames and the internet.

      • @[email protected]
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        39 hours ago

        Considering how he runs a business whose goal is to capture the privacy crowd and how a large portion of the privacy crowd is made up of those “Libertarian” tech-bro types, it might be more than just “no clue about American politics”, especially since he’s also doing stuff like promoting Bitcoin through Proton Wallet which is also popular among “Libertarian” tech-bro types, and the article used for marketing that both-sidesed the problems the “left” vs “right” experience and equated the Democrats with the “left”, which is popular among “Libertarian” tech-bro types as well. The 88 in his Reddit username is also suspect regardless of him claiming that it’s there because it’s his birth year. People who know how to operate a business usually aren’t doing it out of stupidity, so I’m not going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, especially since the entire platform depends on trusting that they aren’t doing anything shady.

          • @[email protected]
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            My guess is that it’s a neo-Nazi thing, so his promoting right-wing American politics (his largest userbase) is probably intentional and not just him being stupid

  • @[email protected]
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    10320 hours ago

    Ridiculous.

    He specifically started talking about American party politics, unprompted, making sweeping statements about both Democrats and Republicans. NOW he wants to blame us for…being concerned with his views on American party politics? Dude. Get real.

    Saying stupid shit now and then is forgivable, but not if you take it in as the new nucleus of your public image. Why do so many public figures have this compulsion to double down combatively?

    • humble peat digger
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      149 minutes ago

      Business owners should not touch politics, thats just alienates 50% of the user base no matter his views

  • @[email protected]
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    7919 hours ago

    Now to reply to the post itself, I think this sums it up:

    As we say in Germany, if there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

    Though the sad truth is that almost every single product or service we use are owned and run by people with similar opinions, it is literally the nature of the capitalist beast, it’s how it function, and why it will always decay in to fascism - because those with the power and the money (not just those at the very very top, but several levels bellow them, too, like this guy) will always and forever care solely about maintaining it and creating more for themselves, that’s it. And to do that, they have to side with whichever dictator-du-jour benefits them the most.

    Remember - there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and this is only one of the reasons why.

      • @[email protected]
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        75 hours ago

        I’d say he’s already a foot over the line.

        He’s backally saying, “We Americans don’t get it. He did nothing wrong because both sides are the same.”

        Rather than remorse, he’s doubled down.