Been working out so well with around 50k Americans dying every year needlessly. We are also clocking in at around one thousand child deaths every year. Japan had zero child deaths from guns this year, and the last, and the last, ad nauseam.
I know you gun nutters love your defense fantasies, but arming the gays isn’t going to solve any problems and will result in more dead people
We already have more guns than people. How many moar guns until we are finally safe!?
I never said the general preservation of human life was what I was discussing. Of course I’d prefer no one die at all.
I’d also prefer immigrants, lgbt+, and others wouldn’t be hunted for who they are.
I clearly highlighted that an at risk group is trying to empower themselves due to the impending risk from actual threats made publicly against them.
Who am I (or you) to tell those folks they are in the wrong to reach for whatever tools they can access? (Be it speech, political action, or indeed self defence)
IM not worried (or therefore the actor in your suggested paranoid imaginings), because I’m not a member of a target group. The trick is I can empathize with their position, and I can recognize that although I’m not in a target group now, I sure could be in the future.
For those reasons I would never get in the way of folks defending themselves, especially when this group is interested in training and safe practices.
The people who “take priority” are those in harm’s way, and we aren’t the ones to tell them how to live right now, there hearing MORE them enough of that as it is
So you are a gun apologist who doesn’t seem to care fifty thousand Americans needlessly die every year. If you do care I guess thoughts and prayers is all you got. Meanwhile no other civilized country has this problem.
Kids get bulletproof backpacks so they won’t get shot in the back. Clearly, by your reasoning we should also be arming these kids.
All this so far is just about gun death as well. Not about the millions of partners who are threatened into staying by gun point. Not about all the people who have lost their loved ones to guns. Not all the maiming and injuries.
I am sure millions of people who live in fear of guns is worth those defense fantasies though. After all, once they are all armed there will be nothing to fear ever again.
You think you get to decide that THIS group doesn’t get to join the rest. The rest are already armed, and of course that’s a good discussion to have (reducing general gun violence.) But no, here’s where you want to argue.
You created a defense fantasy in your head to justify moar guns. That is about it.
Oh, I have lots of ways to reduce gun violence. The problem is your reductionist argument that the only way to ensure equality is to make sure people are killed equally doesn’t allow for it.
I am afraid you lost the argument high ground a long time ago my friend.
Observe, the person demonstrating lgbt+ getting guns is the redline squirms.
Edit this is just like when Reagan stirred up sentiments against lawful black ownership of firearms in California (before he was president). How odd he didn’t raise broad societal concerns the year prior, or the year prior or the year prior
Late edit:
The conclusion is either you chose this thread, and this group to complain about “think of society” topics intentionally, or you are unwittingly aligned with the type of speech rightwing groups use to demonize legal expression of rights and self defence among minority groups. I’m a pessimist so I personally assume the former.
This is not the time/place, or referred to group to be lamenting the state of gun violence in America, unless you do so in bad faith.
But we’re not talking specifically about protecting children here, I’d agree with you that less guns are better to those ends. For fighting fascism though? It took a lot of gun deaths to unseat Hitler and Mussolini
Sure in a hypothetical alternate reality where the only way to defeat evil is to shoot it. Unfortunately we live in the real world and it just means more dead people.
Maybe I’m feeling cornered, vulnerable, angry, as is often the case with these things. But how do you suggest we protect ourselves and our allies from an evil that strengthens itself off of your sickness, your hunger, your homelessness, and has absolutely no qualms about meeting you with violence and coming up with an excuse later?
Bringing a good argument to a gunfight is unfortunately not a winning strategy. When the fascists have no qualms shooting you simply for being yourself, no amount of peaceful organizing is going to stop them. Peaceful protests and organizing only work because they have the implicit threat of violence if the demands are not met.
Yeah because that is what Martin Luther King Jr. would have wanted. We also have to ignore all the peaceful demonstrations throughout history to believe your line of reasoning.
I totally get you live in a fantasy world where moar guns are the only solution. I guess the good guys just magically kill the bad guys. Glad we got that all worked out.
Would you like to investigate what the Black Panthers did? The number of times they shot their guns in anger is very small, but having guns was integral to their strategy of protecting the rights of black people being harassed by police. They were so effective that they changed to rules to prevent them from using guns the way they did. There were little more than 100 Black Panthers around at the time.
Perhaps you’d like to have a broader view of history beyond peaceful protests? Peaceful and violent means of protest rarely exist alone, and are rarely effective alone.
Why stop there, surely there is something worse. Perhaps a personal nuclear weapon. Nothing too big of course, but just big enough to let’s say make everyone regret having messed with you.
Think what a civil society would develop if everyone had one of these. On a side note, I am taking investments on a hot new uranium mine prospect.
When you’re preparing to fight a fascist regime, more guns is the solution.
Been working out so well with around 50k Americans dying every year needlessly. We are also clocking in at around one thousand child deaths every year. Japan had zero child deaths from guns this year, and the last, and the last, ad nauseam.
I know you gun nutters love your defense fantasies, but arming the gays isn’t going to solve any problems and will result in more dead people
We already have more guns than people. How many moar guns until we are finally safe!?
Pretty cool suggesting at risk groups should stay vulnerable when their enemies are armed.
Interesting position you’re taking.
General gun violence is unlike targeted political violence against minorities, so things like school shooting and gang violence stats mean nothing.
Comparing to Japan is irrelevant as there isn’t an armed and empowered group publicly discussing hunting at risk folks there.
Pretending you care about human life when a hundred people die everyday from preventable gun violence is an interesting position you have taken.
Imagined political gun violence in your head or actual dead people. Clearly your imagination must take priority.
Oh it is not just Japan of course. But you knew that.
I never said the general preservation of human life was what I was discussing. Of course I’d prefer no one die at all.
I’d also prefer immigrants, lgbt+, and others wouldn’t be hunted for who they are.
I clearly highlighted that an at risk group is trying to empower themselves due to the impending risk from actual threats made publicly against them.
Who am I (or you) to tell those folks they are in the wrong to reach for whatever tools they can access? (Be it speech, political action, or indeed self defence)
IM not worried (or therefore the actor in your suggested paranoid imaginings), because I’m not a member of a target group. The trick is I can empathize with their position, and I can recognize that although I’m not in a target group now, I sure could be in the future.
For those reasons I would never get in the way of folks defending themselves, especially when this group is interested in training and safe practices.
The people who “take priority” are those in harm’s way, and we aren’t the ones to tell them how to live right now, there hearing MORE them enough of that as it is
So you are a gun apologist who doesn’t seem to care fifty thousand Americans needlessly die every year. If you do care I guess thoughts and prayers is all you got. Meanwhile no other civilized country has this problem.
Kids get bulletproof backpacks so they won’t get shot in the back. Clearly, by your reasoning we should also be arming these kids.
All this so far is just about gun death as well. Not about the millions of partners who are threatened into staying by gun point. Not about all the people who have lost their loved ones to guns. Not all the maiming and injuries.
I am sure millions of people who live in fear of guns is worth those defense fantasies though. After all, once they are all armed there will be nothing to fear ever again.
I’ve made my point, you haven’t addressed it.
You think you get to decide that THIS group doesn’t get to join the rest. The rest are already armed, and of course that’s a good discussion to have (reducing general gun violence.) But no, here’s where you want to argue.
🙄
You created a defense fantasy in your head to justify moar guns. That is about it.
Oh, I have lots of ways to reduce gun violence. The problem is your reductionist argument that the only way to ensure equality is to make sure people are killed equally doesn’t allow for it.
I am afraid you lost the argument high ground a long time ago my friend.
Observe, the person demonstrating lgbt+ getting guns is the redline squirms.
Edit this is just like when Reagan stirred up sentiments against lawful black ownership of firearms in California (before he was president). How odd he didn’t raise broad societal concerns the year prior, or the year prior or the year prior
Late edit:
The conclusion is either you chose this thread, and this group to complain about “think of society” topics intentionally, or you are unwittingly aligned with the type of speech rightwing groups use to demonize legal expression of rights and self defence among minority groups. I’m a pessimist so I personally assume the former.
This is not the time/place, or referred to group to be lamenting the state of gun violence in America, unless you do so in bad faith.
But we’re not talking specifically about protecting children here, I’d agree with you that less guns are better to those ends. For fighting fascism though? It took a lot of gun deaths to unseat Hitler and Mussolini
Sure in a hypothetical alternate reality where the only way to defeat evil is to shoot it. Unfortunately we live in the real world and it just means more dead people.
Maybe I’m feeling cornered, vulnerable, angry, as is often the case with these things. But how do you suggest we protect ourselves and our allies from an evil that strengthens itself off of your sickness, your hunger, your homelessness, and has absolutely no qualms about meeting you with violence and coming up with an excuse later?
I would not suggest purchasing a gun if you are feeling cornered, vulnerable, and angry. Fear is the mind killer.
I would suggest reaching out to others, talking, getting political, and organizing.
Bringing a good argument to a gunfight is unfortunately not a winning strategy. When the fascists have no qualms shooting you simply for being yourself, no amount of peaceful organizing is going to stop them. Peaceful protests and organizing only work because they have the implicit threat of violence if the demands are not met.
Yeah because that is what Martin Luther King Jr. would have wanted. We also have to ignore all the peaceful demonstrations throughout history to believe your line of reasoning.
I totally get you live in a fantasy world where moar guns are the only solution. I guess the good guys just magically kill the bad guys. Glad we got that all worked out.
Dr Martin Luther King Jr bought himself an arsenal. You may not have heard about that
Would you like to investigate what the Black Panthers did? The number of times they shot their guns in anger is very small, but having guns was integral to their strategy of protecting the rights of black people being harassed by police. They were so effective that they changed to rules to prevent them from using guns the way they did. There were little more than 100 Black Panthers around at the time.
Perhaps you’d like to have a broader view of history beyond peaceful protests? Peaceful and violent means of protest rarely exist alone, and are rarely effective alone.
I also wouldn’t advise a gun. Explosives are way more effective.
Why stop there, surely there is something worse. Perhaps a personal nuclear weapon. Nothing too big of course, but just big enough to let’s say make everyone regret having messed with you.
Think what a civil society would develop if everyone had one of these. On a side note, I am taking investments on a hot new uranium mine prospect.
My friend, if you nuke mar a Lago at the right time people will sing songs of your noble deeds for centuries to come.
When diplomacy fails, you’re left with two choices:
Violence or giving up.
Diplomacy is proving to be ineffective. That leaves only the two above options.
Tell that to India. I mean there are so many examples that prove you are full of shit it ain’t funny.
Let’s be real here. You just want people to be killed.
In this case evil is coming to shoot you.
Trumpers killed exactly zero gays today. Meanwhile over one hundred Americans died of gun violence including a couple of children.
This is the difference between your fantasy and my reality.
The “reality” where fascism backs down when you ask it nice?
There is a difference between a hundred dead bodies everyday and your revenge fantasy.
Don’t even pretend you actually care about human life when we have a thousand dead children to lay on the altar of moar guns every year.
Don’t pretend you care about fascism if you’re setting aside proven tools to deal with it.